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After securing Howe, treloar, and aish, i think this thompsec guy owes Hine an apology, he did better than i thought he would, and he did very well in the last draft too. Mind you, id still love to have graham wright back from the dawks, sitting beside Derek at the trade table, the dynamic duo.
It really is funny, we finished 12th this year and have gone backwards in the last 4 years.
We have only 3 ageing recognized A graders in Cloke, Swan and Pendles according to the footy scribes.The last recognized A grader drafted by Hine was Beams in 2008!
The last flag was won by us contained 7 players from the Judkins era and 3 from other clubs in Ball, Jolly and Brown. So only half of the list was by Hine
Ball and Jolly were already recognized A graders.
In 2016 Hine basically now owns this list.
Everybody keeps telling me that he is a genius but the reality doesn't correspond to the hype.
Hine has so far been ok but nothing in the miracle domain.
If we win a flag or 2 in the next 3 or 4 years then and only then will I call him a great list manager.
we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest.
We all get it. You do not rate Hine as many of us do. If the current core group that has been assembled over the last few years goes on to win a cup I hope you have the quality to admit you are wrong.
Winning Premiership is difficult at the best of time. To win a premiership you need a lot of luck and good judgement. Some clubs like Geelong and Hawthorn have been very good at it. Other clubs have only won one premiership in over 100 years. Buckley and Hine are giving it their best shot. I personally applaud their efforts and I believe they are building a solid foundation. Building a premiership team takes time and short term poor results are not a refection of longer term potential for the group.
Going back a few years I thought we would have advanced further than we are at the moment. At the same time I think that our club has recruited very well and the club now has a core group of young players whose reasonable potential exceeds my past expectations.
I think he tends to get overrated, much in the same way players get overrated by their fans. Top end talent usually pick themselves, they're not that hard to recognise and with all the resources in the world at your disposal you're bound to unearth the odd, late round gem. He's done well but I wouldn't consider him a genius.
We have had to rebuild during two compromised drafts, losing a lot of experience of course we were going to slide down the ladder. We had to lose some players to build for a future tilt at the flag with a lot of good young talent there. It's going to take time before the players have the experience and the fitness to bring us to the promise land.
Gold Coast and GWS managed to get a lot of great talent, but they didn't instantly become a premiership team, a champion team will always be a team of champions, we have to get them all working to become a champion team.
Hawthorn are a champion team, they have the experience, and the durability at the moment to do that. They have traded in experience here and there and not yet needed to replace all their high end talent as yet.
Hine is fine, I think Buckley will be fine too, we just need to be patient.
Thompsoc old stick, show us the proof that Judkins was better than Hine. Make a chart of biggest hits and misses but don't do a Joe Hockey and leave off half the information...
Cuthbert Collingwood wrote:Thompsoc old stick, show us the proof that Judkins was better than Hine. Make a chart of biggest hits and misses but don't do a Joe Hockey and leave off half the information...
I will next week when I get back on my computer.
Never said Judkins was better just that he wasn't any worse than Hine.
we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest.
neil wrote:Thompsoc let us know who we should recruit through the draft and why.
We can compare them to Hine's actual selections
Mate look at the phantom draft it is easy!
There is a whole tribe of decent football scribes who rate the
top 100 potential draft picks every year.
But no it is such a mystery science only a guru like Hine can
work it out.
Give me a break!
FFS how easy was it picking Moore and DeGoey last year!
Every scribe had them in the top 10 last year.
But to people like you it is rocket science!
we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest.
Gee if it is that easy why don't all the teams have fantastic lists? And by the way why would it be such a highly payed role. When it is so easy. I think some in here have little concept of what it takes to build something, anything of value.
neil wrote:Thompsoc let us know who we should recruit through the draft and why.
We can compare them to Hine's actual selections
Mate look at the phantom draft it is easy!
There is a whole tribe of decent football scribes who rate the
top 100 potential draft picks every year.
But no it is such a mystery science only a guru like Hine can
work it out.
Give me a break!
FFS how easy was it picking Moore and DeGoey last year!
Every scribe had them in the top 10 last year.
But to people like you it is rocket science!
IF you barracked for the tigers, youd have a case for you constant whingeing and carping, they just lost their third elimination final, cannot even win one final, with avery experienced list, and they missed out on treloar, which hungry campainged for long and hard.
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb.
Cuthbert Collingwood wrote:Thompsoc old stick, show us the proof that Judkins was better than Hine. Make a chart of biggest hits and misses but don't do a Joe Hockey and leave off half the information...
I will next week when I get back on my computer.
Never said Judkins was better just that he wasn't any worse than Hine.
Never thought I would say this but I tend to agree with thompsoc.
I have long felt that people have sold Judkins short. Remember, he did it pretty much on his own in an era when it was less of a science that it is now. He also battled against the interstate clubs who had their local talent safeguarded for their first couple years into the league.
For the record, I think Hine is virtually as good as anyone but he has also more resources than most at his disposal during his time with Collingwood.
neil wrote:Thompsoc let us know who we should recruit through the draft and why.
We can compare them to Hine's actual selections
Mate look at the phantom draft it is easy!
There is a whole tribe of decent football scribes who rate the
top 100 potential draft picks every year.
But no it is such a mystery science only a guru like Hine can
work it out.
Give me a break!
FFS how easy was it picking Moore and DeGoey last year!
Every scribe had them in the top 10 last year.
But to people like you it is rocket science!
A bit of circular logic here. The phantom drafts are based on how the clubs rate the players. Check the early phantoms and they are often a way off the mark (Bontempelli was going much later as one example; De Goey not seen as top 5 is another). It's only when journos start to get information from the clubs that the phantoms start to match the real thing.
As an example, De Goey was ranked 10 here in July. Would we have made a mistake taking Tom Lamb at 5 (ranked 8)? etc. The differences between these players is often not large and deciding who you pick at 5 as opposed to 10 or 15 is far from simple. Then you have later picks where we have also done very well.
The fact is that Hine is doing a very good job. The number of misses have been far less than you'd usually expect and he is widely regarded as one of the best recruiters around. Is he better than Judkins or some other recruiter? It's very hard to judge these things and it's really not necessary. The reason that we do #trustinhine though is because he hasn't got too many wrong. Judkins seemed to have a few stinkers, though did also strike it rich with some later picks.
Overall recruiting comes down to more than one person. Being a well resourced club helps a lot, especially with later picks (and stats show that picking late gems more strongly correlates to success than good early picks). This is both in selecting the talent but also in developing it. We have demonstrably been one of the best clubs in recruitment and development for some time. That we praise Hine personally for all that work is simplistic (often knowingly), but there's nothing all that wrong with it.
Last edited by AN_Inkling on Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Interesting interview with Hine on ABC radio today. He talked about a range of topics: our recruiting this year (Aish and Treloar in particular), the process of making deals (he sounded very relaxed and professional about the Aish deal, by the way; he explained what the Pies were after (Aish), what Brisbane was after that we couldn't supply (a decent ready-made player), and how they worked together to get Norf in on the deal so that all three clubs could get something they were happy with), and briefly commented on the issue of recruits leaving immediately on the expiry of their first two year contract. He didn't say a lot in answer to that last question: he said he understood how Freeman could feel that he needed a fresh start after two years battling with injuries, diplomatically didn't say anything much about Aish leaving Brisbane, and said there was talk about moving to three year initial contracts without committing himself to an opinion on it.
Overall, a careful man not prone to saying anything likely to cause controversy, but nevertheless an articulate, intelligent and interesting man to listen to. He's make a great dinner guest if you could get a couple of reds into him and encourage him to chat a bit.
Well Collingwood did keep Judkins on in a part time capacity till 2013 so we must have still rated him. Until he shared our secrets with Essendon's recruiter and got sacked that is....
IF you barracked for the tigers, youd have a case for you constant whingeing and carping, they just lost their third elimination final, cannot even win one final, with avery experienced list, and they missed out on treloar, which hungry campainged for long and hard.