Post Match. Suns sink Pies. All comments, please.

[Peponi]

Why do posters keep trotting out the same old issues/complaints that have been done to death already? Or aren't they aware of this because they don't bother to read anyone else's posts except their own?

You mean a poster who goes by the name of Sensei Grundy? How many times can that poster post the same rubbish week in week out. I think there were three in a row

[MatthewBoydFanClub]

Fair comment. If Mark Korda just came out and said, like Clarkson, that the club wasn’t expecting to be challenging for a flag this year, given the turmoil of last year’s trade period, the fans would be more forgiving. It would then follow that certain senior players would be phased out into retirement and the emphasis would be on playing youth. Instead the club still can’t make up it’s mind. Henry plays one game, then gets dropped. Rantall plays one game then gets dropped. Keane played one game last year, then got dropped. Tyler Brown can’t get more than a couple of games at a time before he gets dropped. Certain older Collingwood players whose form has dropped off never get dropped. I bet at this week’s selection table there’ll be a lot of talk about dropping MaCrae back to the VFL. How can young players perform when their position in the team is continually at risk and when they do get a go they get played out of position? The Collingwood supporters, most of whom have followed the team all their lives and pay big money for memberships have reached a point where they’re fed up with the club and the excuses they put out and who can blame them?

[Peponi]

You need to give debutant players five games in a row. For them to acclimatise to AFL, the speed of the game, their role and the crowd factor. Dropping them after a game doesn’t help unless they’ve pulled up too sore. They need more than a game to prove their mantle. Give them minimum 5 games before they return to the VFL. The fans will be sympathetic to a coach who is giving the youngsters a real chance. I’m not suggesting we blood them all at the same time. Manage it. You also need experience in the team. The players will respond better around a Howe, Pendlebury and Moore.

[MatthewBoydFanClub]

Totally agree. It comes down to the selection committee and the coach. Buckley is a survivor and people like Buckley who have survived as long as he has, usually have rabbits they pull out of a hat. Should be an interesting response this weekend given we’re playing a lower team in North Melbourne and we have nothing to lose by blooding new players. If someone like MaCrae loses his spot and say Greenwood returns to the team, then that will be a further signal to me that the club has lost the plot (if they hadn’t already after trade period last year).

[Pies4shaw]

I would trade Grundy. He has little influence in the ruck or around the ground, and his tap work is poor. He was beaten by a part-timer today!!!

It's amazing what people think they see. Grundy attended 53 ruck contests and won 37 hitouts. He had 15 hitouts to advantage (Collingwood had 18 and the Suns had 5). He had 7 score involvements (Daicos and Mihocek each had 8, no Sun had more than Grundy - our rucks had 12, their rucks had 6) and 4 score launches (our rucks had 6, theirs had 2). Grundy had an equal-game-high 3 centre clearances (Cameron, Burgess and Graham each had 1) and 5 clearances in total. He had 21 disposals (for Collingwood, only Daicos, Mihocek and Pendlebury had more), laid 4 tackles and kicked a goal.

Say what you like about Grundy - trade him to Carlton for all I care - but let's not talk actual drivel, suggesting that he "was beaten by a part-timer today". That is patently untrue.

[Peponi]

The problem is not Grundy. It’s not getting more inside 50s. It’s having forwards who can kick goals and getting the ball to them. The only forward who has played well is Mihocek. The rest are for the tip.

[blackandwhite4life]

Went to my first game since the 2018 Grand Final.

Positives-

Murphy- in only his 4th or 5th game showed the courage every Collingwood player needs to demonstrate if we are to climb back up the ladder.

McCreery- gut runs and never gives up

McRae- is a little gun-shy at present, but can find the ball.

Poulter- once he adapts to the tempo, will shine- has class written all over him.

Quaynor- a delight to watch his run and carry off half back.

Keane- took three or four solid marks in the second half- is very raw, but will develop- we must wear some days when he will be soundly beaten by more experienced player along the way.

Mihocek- a delight to watch- a real tradesman-like performance- could easily have kicked six goals-with decent supply against North next week he may kick a lazy seven goals...100% respect..

Cameron- not up to his Anzac Day heroics, but this is a very raw tall player early in his career. I would not be disappointed if he were given more time on ball and Grundy played more forward. Inexperienced players take time.

Negatives

Thomas- a 2 touch first half was really poor- essentially unsighted.

Mayne- made way too many howlers for a player of his experience.Is immensely popular among the playing group, but should play out the year in the seconds

Pendlebury- is the unfortunate person to be handed the ball even when he is not the best choice to receive it- Yesterday, he was like a Grand-Master at a Ruben Cube tournament- everyone handed him the ball when they had run out of ideas.

Sidebottom- is not an inside mid or a full time on-baller, but was expected to carry the load in the absence of Sier/Adams et al. Sidey needs to play forward to complement McCreery as the crumbing forward.

Moore- the great Tony Lockett would not have had any impact yesterday given the poor entries inside 50. He is a victim of an appallingly disorganised forward line which has no clear leading patterns amongst its' constituent members.

Coaching panel.

I wrote a few weeks back, we seem to play constipated footy. Please tell our players to play with the courage to make mistakes, but do so from an attacking rather than defensive mindset.

The times yesterday when our players would flip the ball around by hand in a tight space without actually moving it forward was incredibly hard to watch.

Please support our younger backs by putting All-Australian Moore back there to lead the mob.

Play Callum Brown in the guts in Adam's absence and let him hunt the ball.
Please play Tyler Brown every game to see what he can do in the centre.
Have Pendles and Sidey change as ruck-rovers to extend their shelf-life.

Left with five minutes to go- only buoyed by the performance of a few young players on the day and Sier, McInnes, and a few others the night before.

Floreat Pica
[/b]

That is the best post in the 16 pages of post match.

I have a new suggestion... I would like to see Warburton Lad as our coach for the remainder of the season.

Have always loved your insights on a football basis and you would definitely improve the team with those instructions.

Failing that, find someone who can lift the shackles off this boring, demoralised team and instruct them to play brave, attacking football for the remainder of the season. Which means Buckley and his disciples can't be anywhere near the team.

There is skill and talent in this list, it has just been squashed and trampled through the boring negativity of the current coach.

[magpieazza]

Its good to see the young ones getting a go. Very impressed with almost all of them. There will be a couple that will need to go back and develop some basic skill sets. If they get dropped after one game it could also be because their bodies need time to adapt...eg soreness, which is a common thing to happen. I dare say Trent Bianco has all the skill sets but needs to pack on some weight, so if you see him in and out of the team its because his body needs to adapt as well.

[Magpietothemax]

With respect Jezza, Bucks didn’t back end Treloars contract, Bucks doesn’t do the recruiting. As I said earlier his time is up but he shouldn’t be blamed for things he is not responsible for. He is responsible for selection, style of play moves etc and where we currently stand.

His game style is too defensive for the modern game & he does not adjust to rule changes - the game plan is too slow. He had players behind the ball early yesterday. Buckley is also responsible for telling Treloar the players didn’t want him which was a cruel lie. He is also responsible for not telling Stevenson he was on the trade table. He is also responsible for criticising Mayne in the media for the length of his contract. He is responsible for blaming the colour of the jumpers on last weeks loss. With Buckley & McGuire everything is always someone else’s fault. McGuire blamed the media for his downfall. Buckley & MCGuire are not a leaders

I agree wholeheartedly CIWD. To claim that it is not Bux fault but the players' for a listless performance is simply parrotting the line of Bux himself, and overlooks the entire historical record of Bux' actions which have played a major role in landing us in this situation. I will give credit to Bux for one statement in his presser: He did manage to say that as coach he is responsible for getting the team prepared for a game, for personnel and for strategy. However, there flowed from there no conclusions and was said mostly like a comment in passing. There was no attempt to connect that statement with tonight's performance. In the presser he now referred to the "unrealistic expectations" that supporters might hold. Again, it was the club itself who claimed that they could cover the loss of Adz, Stepho and Flip who first promoted such expectations. It was Bux last week and Korda who suggested that we expected to make finals. Now, 4 days later, the supporter base has "unrealistic expectations". Bux' convoluted, blame shifting pressers are hard to accept.

[Magpietothemax]

Why do posters keep trotting out the same old issues/complaints that have been done to death already? Or aren't they aware of this because they don't bother to read anyone else's posts except their own?

You mean a poster who goes by the name of Sensei Grundy? How many times can that poster post the same rubbish week in week out. I think there were three in a row

[watt price tully]

Why do posters keep trotting out the same old issues/complaints that have been done to death already? Or aren't they aware of this because they don't bother to read anyone else's posts except their own?

You mean a poster who goes by the name of Sensei Grundy? How many times can that poster post the same rubbish week in week out. I think there were three in a row

[watt price tully]

^ Buckley's responsible for the way we play and the types of players we recruit.

When it comes to the salary cap debacle, we have to look at the list management personnel.

With respect Jezza, Bucks didn’t back end Treloars contract, Bucks doesn’t do the recruiting. As I said earlier his time is up but he shouldn’t be blamed for things he is not responsible for. He is responsible for selection, style of play moves etc and where we currently stand.

His game style is too defensive for the modern game & he does not adjust to rule changes - the game plan is too slow. He had players behind the ball early yesterday. Buckley is also responsible for telling Treloar the players didn’t want him which was a cruel lie. He is also responsible for not telling Stevenson he was on the trade table. He is also responsible for criticising Mayne in the media for the length of his contract. He is responsible for blaming the colour of the jumpers on last weeks loss. With Buckley & McGuire everything is always someone else’s fault. McGuire blamed the media for his downfall. Buckley & MCGuire are not a leaders

I hear what you say ( or read what you say) but it’s the role of the Footy Manager to explain the circumstances re the forced departure of players not the coach’s role. I don’t want Bucks either but he shouldn’t be held responsible for the decisions and the factors leading up to those decisions (such as back ended contracts) that he isn’t responsible for.

I blame him for the way the club plays it’s footy etc but I don’t think he should be blamed for things he is not responsible for.

[RudeBoy]

Went to my first game since the 2018 Grand Final.

Positives-

Murphy- in only his 4th or 5th game showed the courage every Collingwood player needs to demonstrate if we are to climb back up the ladder.

McCreery- gut runs and never gives up

McRae- is a little gun-shy at present, but can find the ball.

Poulter- once he adapts to the tempo, will shine- has class written all over him.

Quaynor- a delight to watch his run and carry off half back.

Keane- took three or four solid marks in the second half- is very raw, but will develop- we must wear some days when he will be soundly beaten by more experienced player along the way.

Mihocek- a delight to watch- a real tradesman-like performance- could easily have kicked six goals-with decent supply against North next week he may kick a lazy seven goals...100% respect..

Cameron- not up to his Anzac Day heroics, but this is a very raw tall player early in his career. I would not be disappointed if he were given more time on ball and Grundy played more forward. Inexperienced players take time.

Negatives

Thomas- a 2 touch first half was really poor- essentially unsighted.

Mayne- made way too many howlers for a player of his experience.Is immensely popular among the playing group, but should play out the year in the seconds

Pendlebury- is the unfortunate person to be handed the ball even when he is not the best choice to receive it- Yesterday, he was like a Grand-Master at a Ruben Cube tournament- everyone handed him the ball when they had run out of ideas.

Sidebottom- is not an inside mid or a full time on-baller, but was expected to carry the load in the absence of Sier/Adams et al. Sidey needs to play forward to complement McCreery as the crumbing forward.

Moore- the great Tony Lockett would not have had any impact yesterday given the poor entries inside 50. He is a victim of an appallingly disorganised forward line which has no clear leading patterns amongst its' constituent members.

Coaching panel.

I wrote a few weeks back, we seem to play constipated footy. Please tell our players to play with the courage to make mistakes, but do so from an attacking rather than defensive mindset.

The times yesterday when our players would flip the ball around by hand in a tight space without actually moving it forward was incredibly hard to watch.

Please support our younger backs by putting All-Australian Moore back there to lead the mob.

Play Callum Brown in the guts in Adam's absence and let him hunt the ball.
Please play Tyler Brown every game to see what he can do in the centre.
Have Pendles and Sidey change as ruck-rovers to extend their shelf-life.

Left with five minutes to go- only buoyed by the performance of a few young players on the day and Sier, McInnes, and a few others the night before.

Floreat Pica
[/b]

A very good analysis Laddy.

My only difference is that I don't share your enthusiasm for the Brown boys. Callum certainly tries hard but simply lacks the necessary skills to make it imo. Tyler has more potential, but I've watched him closely in the recent VFL games, and he has not done enough to warrant a senior berth.

Like you I've still got some hope that Sier will finally wake up to himself and deliver to his potential. FWIW, I reckon Henry will get a senior recall very shortly. He played very well in the VFL, kicking 3 goals, but marking everything that came his way. The kid has very sticky hands. His main problem is he is not big enough for a key forward spot, but as our 3rd or 4th forward, he could do quite well.

[WarrenerraW]

Another week another loss from a weak and pathetic effort and poor selection. When are we going to catch on to the fact that playing fast free flowing football is the key to winning games; that letting players play on instinct rather than adhering to a 'gameplan' that relies on slow stagnant ball movement and over use is going backwards and will never win us games of football. We are just about the most beatable side in the competition atm because we are so predictable. Nothing will ever change until we give buckley and his useless assistants the arse.

[watt price tully]

I would trade Grundy. He has little influence in the ruck or around the ground, and his tap work is poor. He was beaten by a part-timer today!!!

It's amazing what people think they see. Grundy attended 53 ruck contests and won 37 hitouts. He had 15 hitouts to advantage (Collingwood had 18 and the Suns had 5). He had 7 score involvements (Daicos and Mihocek each had 8, no Sun had more than Grundy - our rucks had 12, their rucks had 6) and 4 score launches (our rucks had 6, theirs had 2). Grundy had an equal-game-high 3 centre clearances (Cameron, Burgess and Graham each had 1) and 5 clearances in total. He had 21 disposals (for Collingwood, only Daicos, Mihocek and Pendlebury had more), laid 4 tackles and kicked a goal.

Say what you like about Grundy - trade him to Carlton for all I care - but let's not talk actual drivel, suggesting that he "was beaten by a part-timer today". That is patently untrue.

The duty statement for a Ruckman includes the ability to impose themselves on the game be it in the centre, backline and forward line. Grundy wins tap outs but he is of little consequence in the air in the backline, forward line or the centre. His miss of trying to touch a long kick to goal by GCS is an exemplar. He doesn’t scare or intimidate anyone except for very new raw opponents. When he does his ruck-rover like work in the backline he can be diabolical for the team in such circumstances like a scrambled panicked kick out of a ‘scrimmage’

He does not kick enough goals and a stat that is not counted is his tap outs to (distinct) disadvantage.

I want a fighter not a lover as a ruckman as he once self described. For a smart bloke he makes some dumb footy decisions. I want a ruckman who listens to heavy metal not recite haiku beneath a cherry blossom in springtime.

Apart from that he’s a fine ruckman