Post Match. Cats down Pies . All comments, please.

[Said by Zed]

The fact that the club is basket case does not excuse the fact that Buckley cannot coach. He took on a team that won 22 of 25 ten years ago and has had every chance of achieving success.

Yeah, and the Messiah aka Clarkson won 4 premierships and his team is now a total basket case being pummelled by other extreme basket cases like North and GC….can he coach? The noise you just heard was a mic drop…..

100% messiah and has more coaching talent in his little finger.

Knocking a Coach that has won 4 GF's vs a Bucks that was 5 goals up and lost.

Go figure...

No-one was knocking Clarkson - on the contrary. The reference was that Clarkson can and is a good coach…irrespective that his team is currently a basket case….which was obviously lost on you.

[daics aka the ruckman]

Broke a few records today.

First goalless half since 2005.
First goalless half at the MCG in 116 years.
Only team this season to have consecutive goalless qtrs, we have now done this twice in 3 games.
4th time since the start of 2020 we have gone 3 qtrs for 1 goal, again only team to achieve this.

Its clear we have problems and the coach should be fixing this.
But he isn't. And this needs to change.
The defensive mindset prevents bad losses but we never win games.

Yesterday was so boring to watch. Even though the commentators wanted to tell us how close we were I never thought we were a chance to get in front. Same as last week. I have no optimism that we will score enough to win.

[rosspies]

These so called Journalists in the press conferences never ask any relevant football questions. The sort of questions I want to hear answered are some of the below:

Is this constant sideways with the ball our game plan? if not why do you let it keep going on for 3 plus quarters?
Is your gameplan to minimize damage on the scoreboard rather then try and win games?
Are you instructing the players to NOT to take the game on and be more offensive with the ball in hand?
If your gameplan is in place, where is it falling down and how are you going to rectify this?


I could not give a stuff about questions about board stability that he is never going to answer. It's a game of football ask questions about football so we get a better idea of what is going on with our team. Listening to the commentary today you could hear Jonathan Brown going on about the game plan during play but nothing is asked about it to Nathan. Why?

[Said by Zed]

These so called Journalists in the press conferences never ask any relevant football questions. The sort of questions I want to hear answered are some of the below:

Is this constant sideways with the ball our game plan? if not why do you let it keep going on for 3 plus quarters?
Is your gameplan to minimize damage on the scoreboard rather then try and win games?
Are you instructing the players to NOT to take the game on and be more offensive with the ball in hand?
If your gameplan is in place, where is it falling down and how are you going to rectify this?


I could not give a stuff about questions about board stability that he is never going to answer. It's a game of football ask questions about football so we get a better idea of what is going on with our team. Listening to the commentary today you could hear Jonathan Brown going on about the game plan during play but nothing is asked about it to Nathan. Why?

Great questions but no coach worth his salt would ever answer at a presser. What is obvious is the team can come out and play like a contender for a quarter and half with scintillating ball movement and daring play through the middle that results in goals and then something happens to the teams psyche which the coach can’t control. He’s done what he can prior which is evidenced in the positive play in the first quarter and half etc and then the team collectively go into their shell and fear the loss instead of risking for the win….this is a by product of all the bullshit which has been going on at our club the last several years. Look at Buckley - he doesn’t understand why this is happening either but the team is definitely exhibiting obvious signs of group PTSD.
Until this is rectified and the players feel comfort and confident it’ll be constantly much of the same.

[Cruisinwithdids]

Yeah, and the Messiah aka Clarkson won 4 premierships and his team is now a total basket case being pummelled by other extreme basket cases like North and GC….can he coach? The noise you just heard was a mic drop…..

100% messiah and has more coaching talent in his little finger.

Knocking a Coach that has won 4 GF's vs a Bucks that was 5 goals up and lost.
The point obviously lost on you was that Buckley has sent this club into a downward spiral 9 of his 10 years as coach. Mentioning Clarkson in the same conversation as Buckley is completely irrelevant.
Go figure...

No-one was knocking Clarkson - on the contrary. The reference was that Clarkson can and is a good coach…irrespective that his team is currently a basket case….which was obviously lost on you.

[PyreneesPie]

Great questions but no coach worth his salt would ever answer at a presser. What is obvious is the team can come out and play like a contender for a quarter and half with scintillating ball movement and daring play through the middle that results in goals and then something happens to the teams psyche which the coach can’t control. He’s done what he can prior which is evidenced in the positive play in the first quarter and half etc and then the team collectively go into their shell and fear the loss instead of risking for the win….this is a by product of all the bullshit which has been going on at our club the last several years. Look at Buckley - he doesn’t understand why this is happening either but the team is definitely exhibiting obvious signs of group PTSD.
Until this is rectified and the players feel comfort and confident it’ll be constantly much of the same.

Yep, I get what you're saying Zed. Fear of losing can affect the greatest athletes on earth. When the opposition come back at us with increased pressure, it's like it's a reflex action to go into defense mode.

I often wonder what lasting effect that smashing in the finals last year against Geelong would have. The pain, the shame, the doubt of a capitulation like that would linger for months, especially as it followed one of the most stirring victories in recent years. Subconsciously, the need to prevent that happening again could also be quite powerful, so the desire to protect a lead could dictate their style of play without the players even being aware of it.

The one player who I believe has a mind of steel, that would set his mental compass to attack without fear or doubt is Tay Adams and he has not been there for much of this year.

[3rd degree]

Buckley must go, he has too much stigma , rubbish recruiting and his team selection is revolting a good example is the 2019 Prelim when he left Varcoe and Goldsack out of the side. Two tough veterans perfectly suited as leaders in a final and wet weather footy. Also in last years final against Geelong we went in too tall and got torched.

[RudeBoy]

I agree with TP that our main problem is our lack of a strong marking forward. I would actually go further and say we are missing both a FF and CHF. It's likely that Cox will return, once he's recovered from his throat injury, though I don't see him as being much of an answer to our problems. He was initially dropped, and has done sfa in the ressies. Looking ahead to next year, we have to hope that we can draft/recruit at least one power forward from somewhere. Once we do that, we will get a bonus of a much better return from Mihocek, who is a great 3rd tall, but not a FF or CHF.

By the way, I'm not going to comment on Buck's coaching per se, but in all honesty, despite losing so many games, we have been remarkably competitive most weeks, despite fielding a team with so many holes/weaknesses. We lack a good strong bodied midfielder, we lack outside pace, we lack any strong marking forwards, or a specialist crumber, and yet somehow we are competitive almost every frigging week. That tells me that we are doing something right. As frustrating as our season is, it would be good to see some acknowledgement from more supporters, to what our team is achieving, given the players at our disposal. The added bonus is the experience we are getting into our new players, who are being fast-tracked.

[BazBoy]

Haven’t watched his post game presser as up till now they are as boring as some of our transition to fwd line

[Kosh]

After watching more of the game than was strictly sensible it is clear that the club mantra is "don't lose by too much." It is joyless dross. I don't regret giving up my Legends membership for one second.The damage being done to young players is incalculable. Perhaps it is the best we can hope for, given the recruiting debacle of the past few years based on delusions of adequacy that grew out of 2018.

Clearly, we lack anything approaching a top six that would walk into another club's first 18. Grand Final losses break clubs because of a combination of self delusion and the fact that they expose weaknesses to the whole competition. No one fears our coach's tactical ability. Just like no opposition cares that Mayne gets the ball ~30 times.

My other observation is that I cannot name a genuinely elite player that NB has nurtured and developed. Moore isn't there yet. JDG sin't there yet. So mediocrity through the front door and any gems that come through by accident have all the things that make them decent footballers beaten out of them by the game plan.

My guess is that the coaching staff have the famous Alan Durban quote as their screen savers or stencilled above their bathroom mirrors.

After his ultra-defensive team had lost a dreadful game at Arsenal back in September, 1980 Alan Durban, Stoke City Manager said 'If you want entertainment go and watch a bunch of clowns.'

Well that is enough of my weekend wasted on this garbage. I have much more interesting things to do with my life.

[Monco Matt]

There are a lot of differring opinions slinging around in this thread which is great as we all should never agree with each other...except on where a Premiership after-party should be!! Thought I'd add fuel to the fire and throw in my opinion on Bux as a coach.

Over the decades of VFL/AFL football the success of a coach can often fluctuate depending on the cattle he has to work with. I don't think anyone one will argue that any great coach has a great list of players to work with. We have seen all the great coaches of our time look very ordinary when coaching a poor list. All of them struggle. A great coach gets the very best out of every player but he still needs a lot of top end talent and well structured list.

The question is, under Buckleys watch has Collingwood ever really put a great playing list together that he can then take to premiership glory?

Whether that is his 100% responsibility or a shared one is debateable, but I would say NO at no stage since 2012 has he had such a list. He is however completely responsible for disassembling the 2010 Premiership list, reverting it into a list of good ordnary players, role players and journey men and the performances onfield sufferred over a 5 year period.

He was handed the keys to a list good enough but decided to trade the Ferarri in for a Tractor. Buckley's teams have always been hard working blue collar teams, void of great disposal skill and more importantly void of elite goal kickers and a deep talented midfield. He has failed to build a blueprint of a premiership team and that is ultimately his responsibility. He has after 10 years built the teams he has wanted and they have all failed to tick the boxes of team balance and skill execution to go all the way or to even just make the finals consistenly or Top 4 for a real chance at success.

After 10 years, he simply has had enough time and wielded enough influence to have built a team capable of long-term success but has failed to do so. After 10 years you do not get another chance, there is no trust there anymore. Now, a new coach is never a guarantee for successs, but when you know the car (current coach) your currently driving has holes in the radiator, the crank shaft is bent, the oil sump is leaking and the fuel lines are clogged it is just time to try a new car (new coach) and take her for a spin, she can't be any worse.

[Said by Zed]

Some really valid points - can’t say I agree with all but mostly. Your car analogy is poignant. However swapping in a new car might also bring in new problems and not get you from A to B as old reliable did. What if you kept the car and replaced the radiator, crank shaft, put in a new oil sump seal, and flushed the fuel lines….it’d be purring like a kitten. Maybe that’s just what we need.

[Monco Matt]

Zed, I would be happy with trying to restore the car as well. That means 'in coach terms' to replace all the assistant coaches with a fresh lineup. I'd go with that than to continue with Harvey and Sanderson. If the club is adament to extend Bux's contract which is looking likely. A full service is acceptable!!

I don't hate Bux, I still would prefer to see him hold the cup over his head, nothing would make me happier. If he needs a reset and fresh ideas around him to do this then I say go for it. If we go into 2022 with Bux, Harvs and Sando it WILL be more of the same.

[Said by Zed]

Great questions but no coach worth his salt would ever answer at a presser. What is obvious is the team can come out and play like a contender for a quarter and half with scintillating ball movement and daring play through the middle that results in goals and then something happens to the teams psyche which the coach can’t control. He’s done what he can prior which is evidenced in the positive play in the first quarter and half etc and then the team collectively go into their shell and fear the loss instead of risking for the win….this is a by product of all the bullshit which has been going on at our club the last several years. Look at Buckley - he doesn’t understand why this is happening either but the team is definitely exhibiting obvious signs of group PTSD.
Until this is rectified and the players feel comfort and confident it’ll be constantly much of the same.

Yep, I get what you're saying Zed. Fear of losing can affect the greatest athletes on earth. When the opposition come back at us with increased pressure, it's like it's a reflex action to go into defense mode.

I often wonder what lasting effect that smashing in the finals last year against Geelong would have. The pain, the shame, the doubt of a capitulation like that would linger for months, especially as it followed one of the most stirring victories in recent years. Subconsciously, the need to prevent that happening again could also be quite powerful, so the desire to protect a lead could dictate their style of play without the players even being aware of it.

The one player who I believe has a mind of steel, that would set his mental compass to attack without fear or doubt is Tay Adams and he has not been there for much of this year.

I think it’s greater than just that loss PP. The current club instability, previous player indiscretions, poor recruitment and retention, administration mismanagement, and overall naval gazing has put us in a deep dark hole. That said based on some of the young talent we currently have on the list I’m confident if we look to repair our team psyche, settle out board and management crisis, and recruit strategically in both draft and FA, we’re only one or two seasons away from finals again - regardless of who’s coaching (obviously to a degree).

[Said by Zed]

Zed, I would be happy with trying to restore the car as well. That means 'in coach terms' to replace all the assistant coaches with a fresh lineup. I'd go with that than to continue with Harvey and Sanderson. If the club is adament to extend Bux's contract which is looking likely. A full service is acceptable!!

I don't hate Bux, I still would prefer to see him hold the cup over his head, nothing would make me happier. If he needs a reset and fresh ideas around him to do this then I say go for it. If we go into 2022 with Bux, Harvs and Sando it WILL be more of the same.

Agreed 110%.