Transgender athletes back on the agenda

[think positive]

It's good that Gen Z's aren't making the decisions then. And sometimes, social norms conflict with professional sport. Case in point, the use of, so called, recreational drugs.

Also, this is not about participation or acceptance. It's about fairness.

all of this from the decisions, god help us, to FAIR!!

[think positive]

[think positive]

Over 70% of the worlds athletic bodies voted for it, I's like to think each of those bodies canvassed the opinions of their female athletes.

With the DSD ones, I have NFI of what health impacts there may be, I guess that would be up to each individual to consider their own situation and get their own health advice.

and there you go David, thankfully over 70% of the worlds athletic bodies, who lets face it, probably have a bigger dog in the fight, have more sense than Monash!


Ive competed against men many a time, I have a drawer full of trophies and ribbons from first pony club, and then the Australian novelty racing association, ie, barrel racing etc like at rodeo's, And I have lined up on the starting line for numerous mud runs, even a snow run, all in it together. Ditto when I was riding trail bikes. there are options. fair options.

[David]

To be clear, the Monash survey came from Monash academics but the people they were surveying were from "randomly selected community sports clubs" from Aussie Rules, hockey, cricket and roller derby:

https://bridges.monash.edu/articles/rep ... e/12731810

I'm not going to the mat for this survey; I have no idea whether it's reflective or an outlier. Happy to see other results if anyone can dig them up.

physical advantage is one thing, biological advantage is a completely different thing.

Can you explain this to me like I'm five? I'm not sure I understand the distinction.

[What'sinaname]

^ a physical advantage due to natural selection is one thing. Undertaking hormone therapy to change your biology is another thing altogether.

[David]

Obviously they’re different, but the question is whether they’re fundamentally different. I think it’s fair to say that the consensus view at this point is that gender dysphoria is not a choice and that transition is the medically recommended treatment. So putting that to one side, we are still talking about differences in physical characteristics, whether or not you’re born with them.

I think the onus is on those calling for "fairness" to define what that word means in a world where all competitive sporting codes are made up of people of different sizes, shapes and temperaments that give them advantages or disadvantages. You can choose to oppose transgender participation for other reasons, but if fairness is what you’re hanging your argument on then I think it needs further explanation.

[What'sinaname]

It's unfair for biological males (chromosome XY) to compete with biological females (chromosome XX)

[David]

That's an arbitrary distinction, though (and is much too simplistic to help us deal with the deeper complexities of some of these problems, such as where to place intersex sportspeople). We could just as easily say it's unfair for east Africans to compete with whites in Olympic sprint events because they tend to be much more physically suited to it.

Is it fair that boxing has heavyweight/welterweight/etc. tiers for competitors and other sporting codes don't? Or is the notion of fairness in sport somewhat more conditional and not quite as clear-cut as some of you are making out?

[stui magpie]

We have weight divisions in combat sports to level the playing field.

Team sports often have different positions that suit different sized people.

Africans seem better suited to most track events, but whites still compete, whites are better in swimming but Africans still compete.

This is not the same as biological males competing against biological women.

Personally i'm happy with each sporting code or league even, having rules that suit their situation and their competitors.

[think positive]

It's unfair for biological males (chromosome XY) to compete with biological females (chromosome XX)

Correct, but read the replies, David seems to think men and women are exactly the same, which seriously makes me wonder how his son was conceived!

Men are born with physical advantages, strength speed, ability to grow bigger muscles in a shorter amount of time.

Yes ther are women with freakish abilities, as there is also men with freakish abilities, we can’t all be Michael Jordan or Serena Williams.

So to the point of trying to be. If a male is not good enough to be a top athlete as a man, why should he get the chance as a female? No I’m not saying that’s why transgenders transition at all, although I would not put it past the Chinese to do it! You can say what you like, that someone was born female in a male body, the male body part being crucial to this discussion. No amount of hormone treatment or operations can change a male body into a female one, it’s impossible.

Not fair? Trans have feelings? Trans feel left out? Welcome to the world of every single living female on the planet at some point in their life.

Women have fought long and hard for equal rights, and women should have the right to only compete against other women, biological women, not manufactured women, in sporting categories where competitors have always always competed as per their sex.

Am I saying that transsexual women are not real women? I’m saying they are not and can never be real biological women.I empathise with anyone who feels they are in the wrong body, but you don’t get to make the change and then go oh wow, I’m faster, stronger, etc compared to other women, when really, your not other women. So tell me, how many women have become men and competed in physical sporting events? At the top level. It will never happen. Because the fittest, strongest, fastest women will never ever be equal to the fittest fastest strongest males. Thars life, that’s fair.

Call me what you want I don’t give a flying ****.

Start a special category.

[think positive]

That's an arbitrary distinction, though (and is much too simplistic to help us deal with the deeper complexities of some of these problems, such as where to place intersex sportspeople). We could just as easily say it's unfair for east Africans to compete with whites in Olympic sprint events because they tend to be much more physically suited to it.

Is it fair that boxing has heavyweight/welterweight/etc. tiers for competitors and other sporting codes don't? Or is the notion of fairness in sport somewhat more conditional and not quite as clear-cut as some of you are making out?

That is the most ridiculous post I have read on this site in a long long time! And **** that’s saying something!

[David]

[think positive]

See, there you go, all I’m asking for is an equal playing field and you roll out a label.

Having to compete in sports that have always been segregated by sex, with a biological male is an insult to all women fullstop.

There is no biological difference between races. There is a massive biological difference between sexes.

I guess all the effort and mechanics god had to put into a woman’s body to allow her to create new humans left a little less room for strength and speed etc. women are not less, but they are different.

As for labels, I don’t give two shits about a persons sexual preferences or whatever, change sex, or even just change your clothes and title, it really doesn’t bother me. There is no hatred and suspicion. You can believe what you want, to fit your Arguements, which I discovered seems to be really common with younger generations. But facts are facts and science and biology do not change.

A transsexual women will never be the fastest women on earth. She will just be the fastest transsexual women on earth, and take the gold medal from the actual fastest women on earth. That’s what I believe, and if that makes me a bigot, stiff damn shit.

Edit reading back, you notice your insulting belittling first world problem comment only effects women? You shouldn’t even have input on the subject.

[Skids]

They've had no trouble introducing gender neutral toilets, why not a gender neutral sports category?
I guess that just makes too much sense and doesn't give the lunatics the opportunity to scream, rant and rave.

[stui magpie]

Sport is the only area in life where there is active discrimination between the sexes, and it is that way for a reason.

In employment, jobs that used to exclude women with height or strength requirements have been modified or had requirements lifted (eg, minimum height in Police) to be inclusive.

A Trans woman should be able to be considered a woman for all purposes, in all walks of life, except in sport where trying to be inclusive of a small minority actually can be to the detriment of a much larger number of biological women. What is the greater good?