Post Match. Lions beat Pies. All comments.

[stoliboy]

Fly Presser
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ah-FqwleNNg

[slangman]

Fly has messed with the structure from the early part of the season by moving Nick and Pendlebury from half back to the midfield which has imho been a big reason why our run and carry game has dropped off.
It might be because Mitchell and Adams weren’t getting the job done or it also could be for other reason.
Ultimately we have lost our mojo since the have played in the centre

[Jezza]

Had some time to dwell on the game and the result, and I'm starting to have mixed feelings now.

On the one hand, I still feel a sense of optimism that our best football is ahead of us and we were missing key personnel that would have strengthened us significantly in the form of N Daicos, Moore, De Goey and Hill. On the other hand, I worry whether we're now in a genuine slump and we're now fading away at the wrong time of the year and it will be hard to turn around our form quickly.

I'll have to do some research, but I'm curious to know the form line of premiership teams over the last 20-30 years at the latter stages of the Home and Away season, and whether history is against us or not despite our ladder position. Losing 3 of the last 4 games isn't the ideal run leading into the finals.

I'm still holding out hope that we're conserving ourselves, and we're going to unleash our best when Qualifying Final arrives. We've earned the right to be there, but can we see it through now and go all the way?

I understand the criticism of Neale dominating Pendlebury, but I'm still adamant seeing it live that Pendles was our best player on the night. If anything, our midfielders in Mitchell, Lipinski and Adams didn't provide us enough run on the night.

Three consecutive games we've conceded 100+ points, and four consecutive games of conceding 90+ points. It would have to be a cause for concern from the coaching staff we're conceding too many goals. We struggled in defence once the ball hit the ground.

Surprisingly, we broke even in clearances (39-39), and won the centre clearance numbers (17-15). This has been a cause for concern for a long time, but it seems to be one of our lesser problems from tonight.

[swoop42]

You have to go back to Sydney in 2012 to find the last Premiership team that lost more than one match during the final 4 weeks of the H&A season.

They lost 3 of the last 4 including the final 2. During this 4 week period they lost to Hawthorn, the side they eventually defeated to win the flag.

Of the last 10 Premiership winners 5 sides only lost once during the final month of the H&A season, while the other 5 didn't lose at all.

[Jezza]

^ That's right, Swoop. Just did some research on this now.

Collingwood (2023) = Last 5 H&A games (1-3)** = 3 losses in 4 matches ??

Geelong (2022) = Last 5 H&A games (5-0) = 3 losses in 18 matches
Melbourne (2021) = Last 5 H&A games (4-1) = 3 losses in 10 matches
Richmond (2020) = Last 5 H&A games (5-0) = 3 losses in 14 matches
Richmond (2019) = Last 5 H&A games (5-0) = 3 losses in 12 matches
West Coast (2018] = Last 5 H&A games (3-2) = 3 losses in 9 matches
Richmond (2017) = Last 5 H&A games (4-1) = 3 losses in 11 matches
W Bulldogs (2016) = Last 5 H&A games (3-2) = 3 losses in 6 matches
Hawthorn (2015) = Last 5 H&A games (4-1) = 3 losses in 14 matches
Hawthorn (2014) = Last 5 H&A games (4-1) = 3 losses in 13 matches
Hawthorn (2013) = Last 5 H&A games (4-1) = 3 losses in 22 matches
Sydney (2012) = Last 5 H&A games (2-3) = 3 losses in 5 matches

So it isn't unprecedented that we can't win from this form line, but it does show it's been weaker than the typical premiership team in the past decade.

[pietillidie]

^It was always going to go this way, anyhow. We did better than scheduled early given we're still a few quality players short, then got hit with injuries. So, we're effectively early in getting this far and late in making corrections, if that makes sense.

Ideally, the challenge would've hit before the Melbourne loss so we had more time to adapt, but it was always going to be down to injury luck because we have to play this style given our talent gap (another gun mid, a gun CHF and a gun CHB).

So, bearing that in mind this is still the right approach, as unsatisfying as it feels. We literally have to flirt with form to try things and cover injuries.

The alternative was to rework things earlier and bet on storming home, but (a) that rarely works anyhow, and (b) as I've said before you can't pause winning momentum mid-stream to rework everything. So, we in a sense banked premature wins, the upside of which is our ladder position.

So, given that less-than-ideal context, what we did today was exactly what you'd want to do if you were dealt our hand: prove to ourselves we can put the foot down and run over a challenger; get some clean footy flowing and test a few things (Coxy back; Frampers more game time; Checkers more marks and play up the ground; Howe more time forward; Pendles, Crispy, Noble and Bruzzy all more central to our play, etc.); and get a very good look at them before easing off.

You can only play the cards you're dealt. You can bet Fly hasn't forgotten 2003. Lethal would've done the same if dealt this hand, knowing he has more chance of winning a few finals than having the perfect preparation, something Geelong also did in 2011.

If it's any comfort, it's always been down the injury gods and our ability to lift for finals footy.

[Piesnchess]

Club officially in crisis. Carlton ended our season and exposed us as frauds. We’re not making past the 2nd week of finals

FOUR star players out, no MCG, and you parrot this utter crap, get real.

[Jezza]

^It was always going to go this way, anyhow. We did better than scheduled early given we're still a few quality players short, then got hit with injuries. So, we're effectively early in getting this far and late in making corrections, if that makes sense.

Ideally, the challenge would've hit before the Melbourne loss so we had more time to adapt, but it was always going to be down to injury luck because we have to play this style given our talent gap (another gun mid, a gun CHF and a gun CHB).

So, bearing that in mind this is still the right approach, as unsatisfying as it feels. We literally have to flirt with form to try things and cover injuries.

The alternative was to rework things earlier and bet on storming home, but (a) that rarely works anyhow, and (b) as I've said before you can't pause winning momentum mid-stream to rework everything. So, we in a sense banked premature wins, the upside of which is our ladder position.

So, given that less-than-ideal context, what we did today was exactly what you'd want to do if you were dealt our hand: prove to ourselves we can put the foot down and run over a challenger; get some clean footy flowing and test a few things (Coxy back; Frampers more game time; Checkers more marks and play up the ground; Howe more time forward; Pendles, Crispy, Noble and Bruzzy all more central to our play, etc.); and get a very good look at them before easing off.

You can only play the cards you're dealt. You can bet Fly hasn't forgotten 2003. Lethal would've done the same if dealt this hand, knowing he has more chance of winning a few finals than having the perfect preparation, something Geelong also did in 2011.

If it's any comfort, it's always been down the injury gods and our ability to lift for finals footy.

Very sensible and nuanced view of the situation.

Really appreciate reading this.

[Piesnchess]

All I can say is enough of all the excuses, reasons and lectures about this slump. If we lose next week, the club will have to plan for next season. The fact is that we are simply not good enough at the moment to win games. We need to improve our game, lift as a team and go in much harder if we are to achieve ultimate success. This will be a tough ask but can be done with a passion to go all out. I’m honestly unsure if they can this year but it is gettable if fully committed to the one goal. I’m nervous about their chances.

Fact is, even if we lose against Essendon next week, at worst we'll finish 2nd and most likely play a qualifying final against Port Adelaide at the MCG (a side we've already beaten twice this season), after a week off and hopefully with something like our best side available. I wouldn't be writing us off just yet.

Correct weight, and thank God for some sanity here. lIke take Curnow, Cripps, Saad, Weightering out of Carlton , see how they go. Long way to go yet, to the Qual final, we were never going to win with four of our best play makers out, never, beat the Dons, week off, and we are back in business.

[Simply_Brutal]

I don’t understand the extreme emotion we as “supporters” are placing on this meaningless match.

We had players noticeably not going up for aerial contests, and pulling up short when they would otherwise attack the ball.

I was slightly perplexed after watching the presser, as it appeared Fly was genuinely dismayed to the lack of desire/intensity BUT this is the same man who has spoken passionately about not managing/resting players, only for us to be managing/resting players.

There’s also a fair argument to be made around not throwing your best at someone you could very likely end up facing when it really matters.

All told I remain optimistic, as we all should. After all, the alternative is trash talking our own players & coaches and I’m not sure how that helps anything.

[Piesnchess]

Marvel is an utter shithole ground, its shit, we rarely do well there, cannot stand the dump, have not been there in over ten yrs. Back at our home next week, with some major inclusions, be very different scenario, totally. Im not afraid of meeting Granpas Fagans Bears later, on the G in a big Final.

[Jezza]

Fly's presser.

How did you see the game?

"What did Fages talk about?"

He [Chris Fagan] said he was happy with the attack, but wasn't happy with conceding 100 points?

"Yeah, we're exactly the same. It's exactly what I put on the board actually; 124 points. It's going to be hard to kick 125 [points] in this competition. I think in the last 4-5 weeks we've just conceded too many goals, too many points. Number 1 defensive team in the competition for major parts of the year. We've lost that mantle in the last couple of weeks. We're not happy with the way we're defending the ground. There are different phases of that. I think our pressure has been good, but we're not defending the ground like we once were".

Why do you think it's dropped away in terms of defending the ground?

"Number of reasons. I think the opposition is certainly trying to keep the ball off us a little bit at times. We'll get to work on this and find out exactly why. We've got some time to work on it, we're not finished yet".

Do you think it's a more of a full ground issue rather than a defensive 3rd issue?

"There's many layers to it. Tonight they [Brisbane] transitioned the ball really well from kick ins. That's one phase. We'll get to work on this. I love to think in a growth mindset. If you think with a fixed mindset that 'we're done, this is permanent', well it's not permanent. We're going to get better at this. We're going to shine a big light on this part of our game. Will it take more than one week to get it right? I'm not sure. We'll be working hard to make sure the opposition don't kick 124 points [again]".

What's the initial diagnosis with Nathan Murphy?

"It seemed like he had a glute knock in the first half then landing on his back didn't help that. That's as far as I know. I don't think it's much more than that to be honest".

What about Jakob Ryan's injury?

"It’s unfortunate. The poor lad playing his first game; he gets a knee in the back of the head and he has concussion so he’ll be out for the the protocols required. It’s disappointing, isn’t it? His family is here, it’s a big occasion, unfortunately he didn’t get to finish the game".

How was Jamie Elliott afterwards? He seemed to land heavily in the last couple of minutes.

"He's okay. It was just one of those contests; he fell awkwardly. He's okay".

Mason Cox seemed to have a big impact in the third quarter after being subbed on?

"Yeah, there's something to be said about hunger isn't there? You take something away from someone; there's an element of 'I want that back'. We'd love to get a bit of that in all our players right now. You just feel like you’re biding time somewhat. But, there's parts of tonight I was really pleased with. Mason coming on in the second half gave us a real spark and I thought Pendles turned back the clock a little bit in the middle of the ground as well. He had some real important moments, particularly in the 3rd quarter. Him and Mason really drove us forward. It's not all doom and gloom; we're playing 1 vs 2 and we're talking about small parts of our game. Bottom line is, we're in the business of getting better and we need to get better".

How much do you think the slump of the last few weeks comes down to being on top and not having much to lose so to speak?

"You've asked me this before. I really don't know the answer to that. You see actions of hunger and last week our hunger for pressure was like 'come on, give me some more, I want some more of this pressure' so that was for everyone to see. I thought it was there for most of the night tonight. I thought that part of our game was strong. This other part of the game, but again you get to this time of the year we're playing good teams. We're not playing mugs. Credit to them, I think they're a very good team particularly forward of the ball. They're hard to defend against. I'm not sure how to answer that question. I know that whatever we’re in right now, and last week, all it is is a moment in time to qualify. I know that. In two weeks’ time, it’s a different game. The whole competition starts again and doesn’t really matter where you qualify. It all starts again. But, the challenge for us is not to be there already. And then you get there and you haven’t got the energy on and you go 'Oh, hang on. Just thought it was a switch and just click it'. Well, that’s not reality. You want to have certain parts of your game going well. It doesn't need to be all humming along. That doesn't necessarily need to be the case. You can say that maybe some narrative around 'oh, this part of the game is not going well, that's permanent'; we don't live in that space. We don't. We're in the business of looking for parts of our game that we need to sharpen up and we've been doing it for 23 games now and tonight has shone a light on our defence. It's too many points against".

Are you worried about your form?

"No, I don't worry about form. What is form? A player is out of form, he does one good contest, he's back in form. That's it. You get energy from doing good things. Were we out of form last week? No. I don't know what form is. I think form is an outcome of good actions, so we just get busy on the action and form you can feel good about it or feel bad about it. We just need to get better".

Do you expect to get Jordan De Goey and Bobby Hill back next week against Essendon?

"Yeah, I’d be pretty confident in those guys. If this was a final they would have been playing. We’re not being conservative but there is a risk reward attached to it. They are not 100% fit to play. Maybe Jordy could have played tomorrow but he wasn’t fit to play tonight. Again, they need to get through training and do what’s required. There's risk reward at this time of the year that you just need to get right".

Do you take that "risk reward" approach next week if there's any other players in a similar boat?

"Yeah, absolutely. We're here to improve ourselves. We're here to put our best team out there that is available. Why would you take a risk on someone next week if they're not quite right. I'm not sure anyone would do that".

How did you see Jeremy Howe up forward tonight? Did you see consider moving him down back when you were leaking a lot of goals?

"Absolutely, we go into a game with a tactic of keeping [Harris] Andrews accountable. He's a very good player. He had 5 possessions until Half Time. What would you have done? It's a challenging one isn't it. We're here to make decisions and you're going to get some right and wrong. At 5 disposals, we thought let's back this in for a little bit longer. Can someone else do the job for a bit longer and see how we go. The third quarter was okay, he [Howe] kicked a couple of goals. Again, you're not always going to get it right. Obviously, with Murph [Nathan Murphy] in trouble, we had to move him [Howe] back. There's always decisions that come up with 'what are we doing now'? We back ourselves in".

What's the ideal situation with Jeremy Howe in September if everyone is available? Is your plan to play him up forward?

"Maybe. I think we're open minded. We'll see what the opposition present. What our best balance is. I thought Mason [Cox] was really good tonight. Do we need to play two rucks again? I'm not sure, potentially. Is that a cost to that possibility? I think every week we're finding out a little bit more about ourselves. Tonight, we find out our defence needs to improve".

https://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/video/ ... 2368744001

[Piesnchess]

^ JN Fly we trust, he answered those questions very well, we are certainly no in panic mode, nor should we, long way to go yet. I well recall, in 1980 Richmond lost last game of the season to Swans. by around nine goals, Tigers were on top too. Guess who won the flag ?.

[Simply_Brutal]

Marvel is an utter shithole ground, its shit, we rarely do well there, cannot stand the dump, have not been there in over ten yrs. Back at our home next week, with some major inclusions, be very different scenario, totally. Im not afraid of meeting Granpas Fagans Bears later, on the G in a big Final.

Marvel is great. I’ve never understood this whingeing but it is consistent with our (and Richmond’s) supporter base to rattle on with such nonsense.

Always find it an absolute breeze to get in and out of. Both The G and Marvel are fantastic venues for different reasons.

[Piesnchess]

Marvel is an utter shithole ground, its shit, we rarely do well there, cannot stand the dump, have not been there in over ten yrs. Back at our home next week, with some major inclusions, be very different scenario, totally. Im not afraid of meeting Granpas Fagans Bears later, on the G in a big Final.

Marvel is great. I’ve never understood this whingeing but it is consistent with our (and Richmond’s) supporter base to rattle on with such nonsense.

Always find it an absolute breeze to get in and out of. Both The G and Marvel are fantastic venues for different reasons.

Does not suit our stye and is a shit hole , a cold souless shithole, end of story. Thats my take. Like playing football in a lounge room.