The List (2024 player movements / list updates / contract discussions)

[LaurieHolden]

Just for a moment pause for consideration that come start of season 2026 we're going to have a much refreshed list.
If the trade table negotiations only partly fall our way, I don't think we'll have bottomed out of the 8 for too long.

Yes, but what about our A grade talent deficit you ask? We'll have quality players come our way. If it's not this trade period (unlikely), what this space this time 2025.
A-graders, well we'll have to wait and see if the quality of RFA's in one of a Worpel or an LDU can be dislodged to join Naicos for the next decade.

If our starting list looked like this going into 2026, I'm not panicking. Get the bookends sorted then work around the rest via the drafts, NGA, Rookies and SSP's.

B: IQ; Balta; Jiath
HB: McCreery; Moore; Maynard

C: Jaicos; JDG; Lipinski
Foll: Cameron; Naicos; Crisp

HF: Hill; Fogarty; Schultz
F: Mihocek; McStay; Richards

Int: from ~
Smit; Harrison; Allan; Parker
Ryan; McInnes; Demattia; Long
Krueger; Sullivan; Steene; Eyre
WHE; Bytel

Personally, I've really liked what I've seen from Harrison, Smit and Parker. Whether Allan, Demattia & Ryan come on will be known by end of season 2025.

We'd still have near on 12 spots open to fill via Trade, Draft (Inc. F/S & NGA), SSP or Rookie to get to a maximum of 44 spots by final list lodgement in 2026.
We'll have the cap space with retirements and the burgeoning CBA adjustment.

[*]Trade; Trade; Trade; Trade pick any from the above ^list a few posts back;
[*]Draft; Draft; Draft; Draft;
[*]potential F/S in Oscar Lonie; Tom McGuane; Ted Fraser;
[*]NGA Luke Quaynor & Tadhg McCarthy;
[*]SSP; SSP; Rookie; Rookie potentially Alex Condon.

[stoliboy]

For our shopping list.

Every Top 10 AFL Draft Pick From 2000 - 2022
https://www.odds.com.au/blog/afl/every- ... 0-onwards/

[swoop42]

Selwood retired after their 2022 Premiership aged 34. Isaac Smith at 34 the following season. Tom Hawkins at age 35 kicked 49 goals last season from 20 games. One year later he's now kicked 15 goals in 12 games. The end looks to have come.
Dangerfield is 34 and averaging 19.56 disposals (lowest since 2011) this season. He was averaging 27.08 in 2019.
Tuohy turns 35 at the end of the year, Duncan is 33, C. Guthrie soon to be 32, Stewart and Cameron currently 31.

In comparison next season....

Pendlebury will be turning 37 in January. Even by veteran standards that's old. Sorry Pendles. He is averaging 20.67 disposals this season (lowest since 2007). He was averaging 27.29 in 2019.
Howe 35 in June, Sidebottom another January Birthday. He'll be 34. Cox 34 in March. Elliott 33. Hoskin-Elliott 32. Mihocek 32. Mitchell 32. Crisp 32 after the season ends.

My point.
Sure, we saw Geelong bounce this season but I think we all know they aren't winning this years flag either. A month ago it looked like they might well miss finals despite the strong start to the season. While our challenges this season are varied one of them is definitely our midfield and it's why Geelong aren't a legitimate Premiership chance also.
Like Geelong one of problems within that midfield is clearly the age profile and the understandable lessening of output due to age.

While I know a lot of people will back us to bounce back next season, I'm less convinced or at least not confident that our Premiership window hasn't now closed in the short term. With a lack of elite young talent seemingly coming through to support Nick (and to pick up the slack of those veterans in decline), I struggle to see how that midfield improves in the short term and propels us back to being a Premiership fancy. At worse I fear our recent form is more indicative of what's to come next season, age has finally caught up with the list and some people are currently in a state of shock and denial.
Even if you legitimately believe we can bounce back to being a top 4 contender next season I think there is a couple of lessons we can learn from the Geelong experience.

The first one is that the Geelong bounce this year has come after the retirement of an all time Geelong great at the end of 22 and a 4 time Premiership winger Smith last season.
I think both men are worthy comparisons to Pendlebury and Sidebottom, the decisions that might be made and demonstrate that while it's sad when champions of the game retire, clubs go on, opportunities arise for others, fresh faces arrive and it's possible to maintain a level of competitiveness.
The second lesson comes from Tom Hawkins and his decision seemingly to play on for 1 season to many. Even for champions who performed admirably the season before the end can come quickly.

Personally I don't now see a top 4 finishing position being realistic next season with or without the likes of a Pendlebury, Sidebottom or Howe.
I could certainly see us being worse without them, with our veterans effectively acting as a band aid solution but is that really what's best for the next stage of our list development? That's the hard question we need to ask.

I'm in favour of ripping off some of the band aids and we see what comes of it one way or another.
If we thrive then bloody fantastic. If we dive then at least we know where we stand and our "prize" is a valuable selection in what should be the last of the uncompromised drafts (prior to the Tasmania draft concessions).

[Pies2016]

One aspect of improving our list that hasn’t been identified in this conversation, is potential positional changes for particular players in 2025.
It’s easy not to do much different immediately after winning the flag and that alone would have conspired to suppress any conversations relating to change. As part of any review after a bad year, there will be a much bigger appetite to discuss players for new roles in 2025 and those conversations would take place well before the pre season starts. Any players who are given new opportunities will be handed customised fitness programs designed to enhance the qualities required to take on these new roles. They will also spend all their time with their new zone teammates in the preseason. Obviously there would need to be a net gain in all this, as opposed to simply shifting deck chairs on the Titanic.
Our 2025 on field issues will be multiple and if we start with the midfield, there might yet be a decision made where any of Quaynor, McCreery or Harrison ( or whoever ) are conditioned for a mid field role in 2025. Do they try out Allan or McInnes as a third tall defender ? Do we trade in a plug and play ruckman, play a 5 kilo lighter Cameron at full forward and then shift McStay to full back. Does Harrison go to the backline as a small defender ( he played as the extra defender against Cats ) What positional decision do they make on 200cm Eyre for next season, assuming he stays on ? Does Krueger get a crack as a key defender, as they played him at Geelong ? Can Hill make us better on the wing ? ( ALL EXAMPLES ONLY )
Technically it’s not improving the list but the right positional change can certainly improve the player and that obviously improves the chances of winning. I expect there will be a lot of conversation in the off season along these lines and it’s always a far easier conversation to have after a disappointing season. We all know what the definition of insanity is and I would expect the club do too. Hayden Young, Ed Richards, Rory Lobb, Zac Williams, Issac Heeney, Byrne-Jones are just a few who have absolutely flourished under a new role this year. Hopefully this time next year, we can say the same about one or two Collingwood players. Get it right and a players positional change can be the quickest and easiest fix of all.

[pietillidie]

^Yep, the three you mention at the very least have to be readied for the midfield and given a crack to see how they go, I reckon. Add Schultz, who might benefit from having a shot at the inside or as a tag given the forward line is a graveyard for most smalls (bar the rare star like Jamie).

[SLORT]

One aspect of improving our list that hasn’t been identified in this conversation, is potential positional changes for particular players in 2025...

Lot's of good suggestions. I just hope that if / when they pull the trigger on re-developing players that they get to play the same position when they're running around in the 2's. This year our VFL team has often been robbing Peter to pay Paul by continually shifting players around, often from the positions that they are then expected to play and perform in when they're given a go in the firsts.

[Haff]

For our shopping list.

Every Top 10 AFL Draft Pick From 2000 - 2022
https://www.odds.com.au/blog/afl/every- ... 0-onwards/

That is damning. 1 top 10 draft pick at the club since 2014. Imma do a Hine review when I get time focusing on the last 10 years. Cant say he’s had nothing to work with, he’s in charge of trading.

[Pies2016]

^^^
Just to clarify, Hine is not in charge of trading or anything related to introducing ready made players into the club. Hine is in charge of identifying under age talent around the countryside. There is no need for Hine to be involved in making decisions on players who have already been in the AFL system for a number of years. There is more than enough data, video footage and Chinese whispers going around about players already in the system, without Hine being taken away from watching half a dozen under age games every weekend. The only time Hine would be involved in any trades for senior players is when he would be asked for his input into what we might be likely missing out on at the draft if we were to give up draft pick X for player Y.

[RudeBoy]

My biggest concern is we DO NOT have any up and coming players, who seem to have the potential to become anywhere as good as the host of stars we are about to lose, such as Pendles, Sidey, Howe, Mitchell, Elliott, WHE, Crisp and Checkers. By my reckoning, it is likely to take another 5 yrs or so to develop/draft/trade-in players of their calibre. By then, JDG and Moore will be near then end of their careers too. Atm, the Daicos brothers are the only young stars we have on our list.

[The Black and White Lion]

For our shopping list.

Every Top 10 AFL Draft Pick From 2000 - 2022
https://www.odds.com.au/blog/afl/every- ... 0-onwards/

1 top 10 draft pick at the club since 2014.

Just an observation but I’m going to look past our single pick and note that in the last 11 years of first round drafts, only 10players drafted in the top ten in that period have won a premiership.
That’s 10 out of 110 so 9.1% to win a flag if you’re lucky. About 80% of first round draft picks in that period haven’t even made a GF.
Despite the obvious attraction it does speak wonders for recruitment outside of the top ten picks every year

[Skids]

We need (and have done for years!) a decent full forward.
Haven't had a player kick 50 in a season since Cloke, over a decade ago!

Imagine a Jesse Hogan, an Oscar Allen... even the 21 yo Victorian Treacy. Somebody!

[neil]

For all the whinging about Schultz remember he is equal second on Collingwoods goal kicking
Bobby hill 23
L Schultz 19
B Mihocek 19

[Take_a_Screamer]

The tough path forward for the Pies as flag window closes... and the obstacle set to make rebuilding even harder

"...Clubs usually sit in a genuine flag contention window for about six years. That means Collingwood’s at the end of this tenure.If history’s proven one thing, it’s that every contender ultimately crashes once they’ve extracted every last ounce of talent from the list... "

https://www.theroar.com.au/2024/07/27/i ... e-horizon/

[The Black and White Lion]

^^^
That’s a good article from the roar. Unbiased. Probing questions. A history of seemingly poor decisions. But we have played 6GF including the replay in the AFL era so need to take the bad deals with the relative success.

But I’m struggling to understand how we will regenerate this time. Browne has said we won’t bottom out in his watch but we have no picks this year, can only trade out players or futures selling the farm again. Whilst we don’t have to find 40 players we do have to replace a min 8-10 quality players and find probably more.

The way we are playing and aging I don’t think we can win the flag again and have fallen out of the window. We’ll now be wasting Naicos’ prime rebuilding, regenerating or whatever bull$hit name they come up with. The team needs rejuvenation no matter how you look at it but I don’t want to be giving up multiple draft picks again for a long time

[slangman]

^^
Sidey has the runs on the board.
I don’t forget who kicked a 55m goal to win the GF.