The ethics of Hiroshima

[Tannin]

Look, the Americans had to use what was available to them at the time. The real weapons of subordination (McHale's Navy, I Dream of Jeannie and F Troop) were still under development and, as things turned out, wouldn't have been ready for at least 15 years.

^ Fair point, indeed a very good point, but we should never forget the major contributions made by developments like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfR7qxtgCgY and especially this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWEvp217Tzw

[Skids]

Look, the Americans had to use what was available to them at the time. The real weapons of subordination (McHale's Navy, I Dream of Jeannie and F Troop) were still under development and, as things turned out, wouldn't have been ready for at least 15 years.

^ Fair point, indeed a very good point, but we should never forget the major contributions made by developments like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfR7qxtgCgY and especially this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWEvp217Tzw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEfTQWV6I_Q
This guy even......

[stui magpie]

Look, the Americans had to use what was available to them at the time. The real weapons of subordination (McHale's Navy, I Dream of Jeannie and F Troop) were still under development and, as things turned out, wouldn't have been ready for at least 15 years.

^ Fair point, indeed a very good point, but we should never forget the major contributions made by developments like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfR7qxtgCgY and especially this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWEvp217Tzw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEfTQWV6I_Q
This guy even......

I preferred this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owMeYSFJzes

[Pies4shaw]

Sheesh! Can't you guys take anything seriously? This is a really pressing issue and you're just all taking the pi$$.

[think positive]

Gees Stui that abused dog nearly had me howling. (Thank god for good rescue people)

[David]

^ Was probably in a better state than the dogs of Hiroshima and Nagasaki after the bombings. Just saying...

[think positive]

^ Was probably in a better state than the dogs of Hiroshima and Nagasaki after the bombings. Just saying...

id rather get vapourized in a dust cloud than starved and abused, just sayin

[stui magpie]

^ Was probably in a better state than the dogs of Hiroshima and Nagasaki after the bombings. Just saying...

Or most of the people who actually survived the japanese POW camps, not to mention the multitudes killed by them, just sayin.......

https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP3.HTM

[David]

Two wrongs don't make a right, but surely I don't need to say that.

^ Was probably in a better state than the dogs of Hiroshima and Nagasaki after the bombings. Just saying...

id rather get vapourized in a dust cloud than starved and abused, just sayin

Well, actually, a great many people and animals didn't get vapourised in a dust cloud. Instead, they were permanently disabled, died slowly of radiation burns or (certainly in the case of animals) starved to death.

[think positive]

Two wrongs don't make a right, but surely I don't need to say that.

^ Was probably in a better state than the dogs of Hiroshima and Nagasaki after the bombings. Just saying...

id rather get vapourized in a dust cloud than starved and abused, just sayin

Well, actually, a great many people and animals didn't get vapourised in a dust cloud. Instead, they were permanently disabled, died slowly of radiation burns or (certainly in the case of animals) starved to death.

Yeah like so many POW did, after slaving away on the railroads for the Japs, bloody awful way to die. But hey, the bomb victims didn't have to sit in the rain holding a log over their heads for hours on end first.

David, it's awful, no doubt about it, but it ended the war. There is no guarantee it would have ended with your scenario.

[David]

Well, the article I posted suggested it may not have, and I think they make a good case. After all, what ended the war was Japan's surrender, so the question is what caused that; conventional wisdom is that it was the bombs, but fear of Soviet invasion was probably at least part of the reason.

Again, I think bringing up POWs (and other victims of Japanese military aggression) is irrelevant here as we're talking about the ethics of innocent civilians being massacred. And again, far from all of them died instantly.

[think positive]

david I've been to pearl harbour and seen first hand the devastation the <snip>s did there, it wasn't just military personnel who died. They bought the yanks into the war with that move. Their ruthlessness towards POWS and civilians is not made up. Of course it comes into the equation. Yes millions died, but did it save millions of allie lives?

I know you think the US is a waste of space, and the cause of every problem in the world. But without those bombs we might be speaking Japanese.

It's tragic, nothing will change that. They did what they thought necessary, at the time, with the info they had. Hindsight is always 20/20.

[David]

Not sure where you get the idea that I hate America so much. And I'm not arguing with you about Pearl Harbour, POWs and (worst of all) the victims of Manchuria and elsewhere, so I'm not sure why you keep bringing it up.

Re: 'speaking Japanese', you do realise Japan wasn't winning the war before the bombs were dropped, right? The atomic bombs may have hastened the end of the war, and may have saved many more lives as a result (though, as I've argued, I think that's an extraordinary and unlikely claim), but it's not like the Allies weren't going to win without them. And it seems the USSR would have taken care of Japan anyway.

[think positive]

When the flyers dropped the day before, why didn't Japan surrender then?

[HAL]

And then what happened?