The ethics of Hiroshima

[David]

[ronrat]

David you are making the assumption that they were all civilians. Guards and
soldiers were there as were makers and producers of war materials. One American survived both bombs. The post war stuff made it clear that they didn't want the Emperor killed because the Japanese people would have virtually wiped themselves out. Perhaps you thought the starvation of the the rest of Asia was a better idea. Because it would have been in the 10s of millions.

The Japanese would have taken the spoils of war. Som Nom Nar. They damn lost

[Pies4shaw]

"Tout est pour le mieux dans le meilleur des mondes possibles."

[think positive]

Ok then

[stui magpie]

Good ole Voltaire.

[HAL]

Glad to hear it.

[think positive]

Just finished watching 'Unbroken'

Oh man the cruelty, the inhumanity, the pure evil, thank god that was ended.

[think positive]

So I just got Back from my third very sobering visit to Pearl Harbour. It gets me every time. The foolishness of the radar commander, the cleverness of the attack, the luck that the carriers were not in Port, and the bravery of those on the ground trying so hard against all odds to help those in the water, on the ships, on land, and the utter waste of life that war is. This time I paid more attention, read the words of the Japanese general, who knew his country had brought about its own downfall with the attack, that the need for revenge of the USA would be unrelenting. And once again I marvelled at how many Japanese tourists were there. The first time, 23 years ago, not many, the second two years back more, today, heaps. And I wondered out loud to hubby 'why are they here? What are they thinking? Are any of them fist pumping?" So I googled it, and it seems I'm not the only one wondering.

Personally I've always viewed the Japenese as rather emotionless, I have no idea why. It seems I'm not alone there either. For many apparently, it's embarrassing, they still feel shame, (no I don't think they should) there is also some fist pumpers. Seems they are not taught much about it at school, hardly surprising.

But the most telling for me was the words of many of the older generation, who lived through it or in the aftermath: Many say, 'Makete, yokatta,' which means 'We lost and it was a good thing.' "


Im guessing the Japanese wonder the same about Americans visiting Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I know people who have been to both Pear Harbour and the bomb sites. They are both sobering, respectful places apparently.

So many think the average Americans are brash, loud, but one thing they do amazingly well is show respect at these places. They frown on selfies. They don't burst with pride. I'm always amazed by the respectful atmosphere of Pearl Harbour, the acceptance of all visitors, and I felt the same visiting ground zero. Places of really deep sadness, yet also places that call for peace, not revenge.

Interesting article:
http://articles.philly.com/1991-11-18/n ... e-tourists

[stui magpie]

I guy I went to school with is a uni teacher in Japan, he lives there. Married to a local and has a couple of kids.

I could ask him what the general attitude to WWII is in Japan and how much the younger generation know about it.

[Mugwump]

Just finished watching 'Unbroken'

Oh man the cruelty, the inhumanity, the pure evil, thank god that was ended.

Interesting posts, TP. I have not seen the film, but I read the book, which is very real. Amazing that the sadist Watanabe lived and died a free man. That too tells something about the "don't look" attitude to WW2 in Japan, and the Japanese difficulty with explicitness. I've visited Japan a few times, and it is one of the most impenetrable cultures I have ever encountered : stoic, ritualised, conformist, collectivist, conservative and very introverted. So very different to us, and very interesting.

Modern Japan is a testament to the greatness of mid-century America. Faced with an enemy that had systematically inflicted the greatest brutality on American servicemen, and cost so many lives in such a sudden and non-negotiable attack, many countries in America's position would have enslaved, exploited and colonised a broken Japan. Instead, despite the absolute power conferred by its atomic weapons capability, America took the idealistic route of seeing its interests in terms of a demilitarised democracy which was then broadly handed it back to the Japanese to govern themselves. The reparations exacted were just and disproportionately low, consistent with leaving Japan with enough capital to fund its reconstruction.

I am not so sure that the junkyard dogs in modern US politics (Obama being an honourable exception) would have that largeness of vision and soul, that same optimism and strength.

Why are the Japanese at PH? The people who post on Nicks do so with a wide variety of agendas and perspectives, some more congenial than others. I guess the same applies to any group of people in a pursuit that has a meaning. For the average, my suspicion is that it is a way of pushing responsibility away from the self, and into history - which is fair enough, after ~ 80 years, as long as it does not amount to a desire to erase what happened as a shameful act of Japanese history.

Enjoy your trip !

[ronrat]

Interesting posts, TP. I have not seen the film, but I read the book, which is very real. Amazing that the sadist Watanabe lived and died a free man. That too tells something about the "don't look" attitude to WW2 in Japan, and the Japanese difficulty with explicitness. I've visited Japan a few times, and it is one of the most impenetrable cultures I have ever encountered : stoic, ritualised, conformist, collectivist, conservative and very introverted. So very different to us, and very interesting.

I was watching the japanese channel here a few months ago and they were bemoaning the fact that in many of the rural prefectures the young ones had moved out and moved to the cities. They had houses going to waste and know one to pick the rice crops and grow and pick the vegetable and fruit crops. The next day on another channel they were showing the plight of the Rohingan refugees. Since many of these peoples were in Burma because their Dads were "guest" workers of the Japanese surely it doesn't take much to work out that if they offered 50000 spots for families they could fill the houses, get labour and solve the coming fresh food problem. But then I am not on the UN getting buckets of money to solve pretty much nothing. I suspect the cultural nuances you mentioned would stop it but a generation later it would be forgotten.

[David]

It's not a bad idea at all, but can you imagine how the "stop the boats" set here in Australia would react to 55,000 (Muslim!!!!) refugees entering the country? And Japan is even more resistant to outsiders than we are. Can't imagine the idea gaining much purchase there, to say the least.

[ronrat]

The asians as a whole make Pauline Hanson sound like you David (and I do apologise). Not sure about Laotians,they seem pretty contented because they have a great beer and the Maldives seems peaceful enough but just about every other country except Brunei (too small and rich and almost total muslim) and Singapore (too busy getting on with it and so racially diverse) hates each others guts. Even Bhutan is complaining about Indians ruining there lives and Nepal is still getting over the assasination of half the Royal family. My brother speaks highly of Mongolia where he did a 3 week stint. They gave him a cut lunch every day which included a litre of vodka. As an aside I asked him and his mate what the girls where like. His mate described them as Blue eyed, blonde haired asiatic looking beauties but best described as big titted slimwaisted bed thumpers on steroids. It gets cold in the Gobi desert but they make sure you never find out. The Japanese are the most racist of the lot.

[stui magpie]

^

Well. Not a holiday destination I would have considered before but seriously considering it now.

[think positive]

How about the ethics of planning to spread bubonic plague by balloon ?
Nice huh?

Never heard this before

https://m.warhistoryonline.com/featured ... aze.html/2