Welcome to Collingwood, Derek Hine

[Pies4shaw]

Excellent! Even our 'bot is trolling.

[RudeBoy]

Well lets not forget the following VFL defenders whom would bypassed and are now elite and first picked in their respective defences:

* Dean Rampe: was from the Seagull. Shall be All Australian this year
* Adam Saad: killing it at Gold Coast
* Michael Hibberd: plucked from Frankston Dolphins. top 6 player on Ess. list
* Kyle Hartigan: mainstay now in Crows defence from Werribee originally
* Sam Collins: Box Hill Hawks player doing great for Freo.
* Alex Silvagni: middling player from Coburg but had 6 years career at Freo
* Tom Ruggles: B & F for Cats in VFL last year now a cats mainstay
* Sam Mitchell: yes more midfield but a 2001 Box Hill B & F winner
* Michael Firrito: now played 265 games after Box Hill career.

What can Ryan Pendlebury do and what has he done??

1. he can kick
2. he has footy smarts
3. he hits targets
4. he was in VFL team of the year
5. he was ranked number 1 for rebound 50's in the entire VFL league for year

Let's stop worrying what he can't do. He would be better than:

* Toovey
* Maynard (at this stage)
* Frost etc...

Can't argue with that, except I'm a great fan of Maynard.

However, I guess we don't know what else goes on off the field. Maybe Ryan has a balanced life and is not interested in making the total commitment required to play AFL? Who knows? That said, his VFL performances certainly make him look like a ready made AFL player. And we could certainly do with a solid 6'4" key smart defender with good foot skills.

[HAL]

Who wouldn't?

[jackcass]

Can't argue with that, except I'm a great fan of Maynard.

However, I guess we don't know what else goes on off the field. Maybe Ryan has a balanced life and is not interested in making the total commitment required to play AFL? Who knows? That said, his VFL performances certainly make him look like a ready made AFL player. And we could certainly do with a solid 6'4" key smart defender with good foot skills.

He's listed as 191cm. There is some confusion about DOB, listed as 2/8/88 in the 2016 VFL list announcement. My query remains that if we're going to take a chance on a VFL player, are we better off going for Pendles or Borthwick or Viola, or Kelly. For mine I'd have both Kelly and Viola ahead of Pendles.

[HAL]

Who wouldn't?

[AN_Inkling]

Well lets not forget the following VFL defenders whom would bypassed and are now elite and first picked in their respective defences:

* Dean Rampe: was from the Seagull. Shall be All Australian this year
* Adam Saad: killing it at Gold Coast
* Michael Hibberd: plucked from Frankston Dolphins. top 6 player on Ess. list
* Kyle Hartigan: mainstay now in Crows defence from Werribee originally
* Sam Collins: Box Hill Hawks player doing great for Freo.
* Alex Silvagni: middling player from Coburg but had 6 years career at Freo
* Tom Ruggles: B & F for Cats in VFL last year now a cats mainstay
* Sam Mitchell: yes more midfield but a 2001 Box Hill B & F winner
* Michael Firrito: now played 265 games after Box Hill career.

What can Ryan Pendlebury do and what has he done??

1. he can kick
2. he has footy smarts
3. he hits targets
4. he was in VFL team of the year
5. he was ranked number 1 for rebound 50's in the entire VFL league for year

Let's stop worrying what he can't do. He would be better than:

* Toovey
* Maynard (at this stage)
* Frost etc...

Sure, once in a blue moon a player is elevated from the VFL and carves out a career in the AFL. Then there are the many, many VFL stars that never make it. What you're telling us is that you can tell for sure that RP is AFL standard and all of the professional recruiters, who to this stage disagree, have got it wrong. Big call, especially when the number one factor for those that make it is how hard they are willing to work. We simply don't know that about Ryan, the recruiters who you call blind, do. So it is us who are blind, not the recruiters, as we just don't have the full picture.

The players you've listed as not being on Ryan's level shows that you put far too much store in kicking skills. They all do things which RP simply is not capable of and have already proven themselves as AFL players. Toovey has had a very good career and has been one of our best one on one defenders, Frost is a KPD with great athleticism and Maynard (the most unfair of your slights) is a 19 year old kid who is hard at it, has a long left foot and has definite potential.

[HAL]

Who wouldn't?

[inxs88]

Well lets not forget the following VFL defenders whom would bypassed and are now elite and first picked in their respective defences:

* Dean Rampe: was from the Seagull. Shall be All Australian this year
* Adam Saad: killing it at Gold Coast
* Michael Hibberd: plucked from Frankston Dolphins. top 6 player on Ess. list
* Kyle Hartigan: mainstay now in Crows defence from Werribee originally
* Sam Collins: Box Hill Hawks player doing great for Freo.
* Alex Silvagni: middling player from Coburg but had 6 years career at Freo
* Tom Ruggles: B & F for Cats in VFL last year now a cats mainstay
* Sam Mitchell: yes more midfield but a 2001 Box Hill B & F winner
* Michael Firrito: now played 265 games after Box Hill career.

What can Ryan Pendlebury do and what has he done??

1. he can kick
2. he has footy smarts
3. he hits targets
4. he was in VFL team of the year
5. he was ranked number 1 for rebound 50's in the entire VFL league for year

Let's stop worrying what he can't do. He would be better than:

* Toovey
* Maynard (at this stage)
* Frost etc...

Sure, once in a blue moon a player is elevated from the VFL and carves out a career in the AFL. Then there are the many, many VFL stars that never make it. What you're telling us is that you can tell for sure that RP is AFL standard and all of the professional recruiters, who to this stage disagree, have got it wrong. Big call, especially when the number one factor for those that make it is how hard they are willing to work. We simply don't know that about Ryan, the recruiters who you call blind, do. So it is us who are blind, not the recruiters, as we just don't have the full picture.

The players you've listed as not being on Ryan's level shows that you put far too much store in kicking skills. They all do things which RP simply is not capable of and have already proven themselves as AFL players. Toovey has had a very good career and has been one of our best one on one defenders, Frost is a KPD with great athleticism and Maynard (the most unfair of your slights) is a 19 year old kid who is hard at it, has a long left foot and has definite potential.

I am a Maynard fan hence the (at the moment) reference in parenthesis/ My comparison of player skills with our most recent backline against Port, was too highlight the disparity of effective disposal. To which we are an abomination at the moment.

(Toovey has had the most selection friendly and luckiest career at the Pies since John Annear and Ben Johnson's first 80 games). Whatever pace he has had is gone too: remember the attempted run and baulk last week??

[HAL]

Who wouldn't?

[Raw Hammer]

How is ANYONE a fan of Maynard???

[piedys]

Hine is not the messiah people seem to think he is.

Look at the kennedy, Grundy, broomhead draft as an example!

Hine is slipping, but if you look at the 2012 table below, is there another player before the #38 Ramsay selection that you might have preferred instead? Jack Viney secured under F&S, James Stewart aside of course?

18 Brodie Grundy Collingwood Sturt
19 Ben Kennedy Collingwood Glenelg
20 Tim Broomhead Collingwood Port Adelaide (SANFL)
21 Nathan Hrovat Western Bulldogs Northern U18
22 Dean Towers Sydney Swans North Ballarat VFL
23 Marco Paparone Brisbane Lions East Fremantle
24 Nathan Wright St Kilda Dandenong U18
25 Spencer White St Kilda Western U18
26 Jack Viney Melbourne Casey Scorpions
27 James Stewart Greater Western Sydney Sandringham U18
28 Tim O'Brien Hawthorn Glenelg
29 Tom Clurey Port Adelaide Murray U18
30 Mason Shaw Port Adelaide South Fremantle
31 Kamdyn McIntosh Richmond Peel Thunder
32 Michael Close Brisbane Lions North Ballarat U18
33 Liam McBean Richmond Calder U18
34 Jason Ashby Essendon Oakleigh U18
35 Tom Temay Carlton Sandringham U18
36 Tanner Smith Fremantle North Ballarat U18
37 Ben Jacobs North Melbourne Port Adelaide
38 Jackson Ramsay Collingwood East Perth

[Raw Hammer]

Any of Nathan Hrovat, Tim O'Brien or Ben Jacobs.

[piedys]

Any of Nathan Hrovat, Tim O'Brien or Ben Jacobs.

I'll have to keep an eye on those guys then...
From what i've seen of Tim O'Brien though, I think Whorkes will need to carry him for a while longer yet...

[Craigmac]

Reading a number of posts about the poor performance of our recruiting team over the past 6/7 years.

But 2 names that have been missed so far are the 2 we should have had, James Stewart and Jake Kelly under father son.

What a difference they would have made on the weekend.

James Stewart, 10 kicks, 6 handballs, 4 tackles, 7 marks as a key forward delivering 3 goals 2 behinds.

Jake Kelly, 11 kicks, 7 handballs, 2 tackles, 6 marks......playing defense in one of the grand final teams from last year.

Jake Kelly could play the Darcy Moore roll down back which would mean Moore and Stewart could combine as twin targets up forward. Moore could Ruck 10% of the time with Grundy.......then we are not talking about Cox. All of a sudden we have a spine....a young spine. Darcy could swing back or forward on need and we could draft another young tall next year.

A lot of focus rightly so on Buckley, but I place the list management & recruitment decisions the number 1 reason for the situation we are in today

[K]

Stewart is discussed a bit in the "Cox Expt" thread:
http://magpies.net/nick/bb/viewtopic.php?t=83590